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by Ashraf Laidi
Posted: Feb 22, 2010 5:00
Comments: 8935
Forum Topic:

Gold, Oil & Indices (Equity & Bond Indices)

Discuss Gold, Oil & Indices (Equity & Bond Indices)
 
lucky
ibadan, Nigeria
Posts: 377
14 years ago
May 6, 2010 15:59
where are my friends chloe and asad miss ur comments today
Callum
Singapore, Singapore
Posts: 179
14 years ago
May 6, 2010 13:06
Hi Ashraf, any latest views on possible levels for Gold in light with the deteriorating EUR situation? Is it possible that if EUR heads further south (eg, 124), Gold more likely to break 1200?
radu
bucharest, Romania
Posts: 203
14 years ago
May 6, 2010 3:33


Montmorency

WooooooW

You spend a lot of time to do this , thanks .

My quest was how important could be a hammer on 1 hourly chart and it is clear the difference between 1 h and daily...btw , nice example with xau chart and the hammer on 05.02 was a really piece of work and i remember very good , even Ashraf has signaled that on twitter .

Now , i will go to sleep for few hours , it will a hard day today (i"m long on eur/usd and wti with medium positions and with pretty conservative stops placed ) .

Cheers
montmorency
Abingdon, UK
Posts: 610
14 years ago
May 6, 2010 2:52
[oops - the bottom got cut off the previous post - too long perhaps - I will try to append it here]

However there are probably many more examples of reversals with no pin bar present. In some cases there are other PA patterns that I can recognise, in others nothing special.

So, if you were depending on just pin bars, you would miss many opportunities.

Some of the other patterns in the "James16" canon are:
-Double Bar High Lower Close DBHLC
-Double Bar Low Higher Close DBLHC
-Double Bar High DBH
-Double Bar Low DBL
- Inside Bar (and variants) IB
-Bullish Outside Bar BUOB
-Bearish Outside Bar BEOB
-Doji (can't remember if James has a name for them)
...
and no doubt you could use other patterns in the Japanese candle pattern library, although my eyes soon start to glaze over with those after a while...


Er, Im sure I had other things to say, but they've gone out of my head for now, so I will close, in hoping this has been of some interest, and that it may provoke thought and discussion.


[Ends]

montmorency
UK
Posted Anonymously
14 years ago
May 6, 2010 2:49
Oh, it seems that the "Trading" thread has disappeared, so I will put this in here. After Radu mentioned hammers on a 1H chart in another thread, I got to thinking further about this, and revisited some threads on another forum written by someone who has written and taught a great deal about price action in general, often (not always) featuring hammers, or pin bars as he calls them (so do I), even if we both actually use candle charts, not bar charts. BTW, I am not talking about "James16" on FF, although he is perhaps the most famous exponent of this form of trading. The trader I am thinking about was taught by J16, but has evolved the method somewhat.

The name pin pars comes from "Pinocchio" the fictional character whose nose grew when he lied. The idea is that the "nose" of the pin bar is lying - it is pointing in the direction _away_ from where price is likely to go next. It is a reversal signal. However, in the way that this trader teaches it:-

- It's not to much the pin bar itself, but _where_ it occurs that is significant.
- It should be at a swing high or swing low
- It should be at a significant level - e.g. calculated pivot, or de-facto previous turning point (pivot point) ("it" usually being the tip of the nose of the pin, but this can vary).
- The longer the time-frame, the more reliable the signal, i.e. weekly more reliable than daily; daily more reliable than hourly.
- Ideally, it should be supported by the confluence of one or more Fibonacci levels; if more than one, so much the better.

There may be other provisos, but I think those are the main ones. It should be said that in this method, other price action (PA) candle patterns are also used in a similar way, but I will stick to pins here.

As I have said elsewhere, after I started taking more notice of fundamentals, I began to trade less and less on pure PA (including pins and other patterns). However, I was just looking at the daily gold chart, and noticed a few interesting things. I've put up the chart from this site, but the chart I am really looking at goes back further. Also mine is GMT, so it won't be identical anyway.

I'm just scanning the last 6 months or so from left to right on my daily chart, looking for pin bars, which I will number:-

1. 27 Nov 2009, there is a massive bullish pin - does not quite conform to type since it is not indicating reversal of trend, but continuation

2. 22 Dec 2009 - not quite a pin in his definition (nose too small), but it did signal a trend reversal, at least a short one.

3. 11 Jan 2010 - a trend reversal - and is that a bearish pin? Maybe.

4. 3 Feb 2010 - again, not quite a bearish pin, but (in this case) a trend contiuation, not reversal.

5. 5 Feb 2010 - Now here's a beauty: distinctive bullish pin with a real trend reversal

6. 24-25 Feb - 2 successive pins - trend continuation.

7. 3-4 March 2010 - there is a change of direction (longish pull-back rather than change of trend I would say) with no pin, although some might recognise other PA patterns here.

8. 24 Mar 2010 - now that's kind of a pin, but it's not working in the usual direction - the nose isn't going in the opposite direction of the move, but the same - anyway, upward trend resumes.

9. 12 April - pullback - not really a pin though.

10. 19 April - now there's a nice bullish pin, and up it goes.

11. 4 May 2010 - here we have a bearish pullback (no pin), followed immediately by

12 5 May 2010 - bullish pin, indicating (presumably) a resumption of the uptrend.


Now one of the reasons it's quite hard to trade these on the longer T/Fs, even though they may be more reliable than say, the 1H, is that (obviously), they don't occur all that often (even less often on the weekly chart). There are other reasons why they can be hard to trade, but I don't want to get too bogged down in detail here.

As I have said, I don't take as much notice of these as I used to, but perhaps I have been neglecting them somewhat. If pin bars (or more generally, Price Action) can be effective (at least on longer T/F charts) on their own, if they are also supported by fundamentals, they could be quite powerful, don't you think?


I'm now just looking back on my (broker's) copy of the chart, to see if I have been suffering from "selection bias" - am I just picking out those that worked and ignoring those that didn't?

Well, that is always a danger, and something to beware of.
I've only done a quick scan by eye, going back to 2001, and my immediate impression is:

- There are many examples of pin bars apparently signalling either a trend reversal, a significant pullback, or a significant trend resumption/continuation after a pullback.

- However there are probably many more examples of reversals with no pin bar pre
montmorency
Abingdon, UK
Posts: 610
14 years ago
May 6, 2010 0:34
I'm wary about saying anything about gold - it so often appears to have a mind of its own - but I'm going to anyway: I would be wary of shorting gold at this particular point (~1176 as I write). This is on technical grounds, and I normally don't trade very much on those these days, but even so ... On the daily there is one heck of a bullish pin bar (hammer) for Wednesday. While it may not signal a full-blown resumption of the up-trend, I think an upward move of some sort is likely here, subject of course, to countervailing fundamentals.

I got to thinking about this after Radu raised a point about hammers on the hourly chart in another thread. If I can get my act together, I'll post more on this topic in "Trading".

chloethebull
Canada
Posted Anonymously
14 years ago
May 5, 2010 22:51
i agree 100% lucky oil should try to go up ..but i was kinda scared to try it in the morning only to have it run to 81.50 then tank back down..lol..but it wasn;t too long ago oil was at 69.50 ..within the last 4mths i think an thats enough to keep me out then..but now im willing to go long an use a stop loss..i never use sl..lol..an thats why i go on crazy swings lol 15-20k..lol.im still a beggineer..thanks an gl whats asad up these days..i know u were short oil...i wasn;t buying the long position story..
lucky
ibadan, Nigeria
Posts: 377
14 years ago
May 5, 2010 22:36
chloe i am trying long oil now opened 7960 sl 7885 cause a drop from 87 need a retreat before resuming down trend hope we can make it again gl
catnip
Frankfurt, Germany
Posted Anonymously
14 years ago
May 5, 2010 22:20
What about the skyrocketing prices of UST? As long as demand for USD is such high why should one want to buy gold priced in most expensive USD?
I think we'll see a kind of gold rush when EUR rebounds and UST yield drops but we won't see raising gold as long as EUR uncertainty persists. Gold is already priced for Eur uncertainty it cannot get more uncertain unless EUR eventually breaks up.
chloethebull
Canada
Posted Anonymously
14 years ago
May 5, 2010 22:12
@lucky ..what do u think about a long on oil..maybe long @79.50 get out at 81.50...but i don;t feel comfortable long oil but mayb u see something i don;t in the short term..an gold i agree gold has the merits to go higher an i only have a very small position @1161..hopfully it tanks an retest 1100..ok thanks an gl